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 Stolen Followers

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sdknight
Wandering Spirit
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PostSubject: Stolen Followers   Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:33 pm

If a god has a significant number of their followers stolen from them and Forcibly (aka Insta-conversion Miracle) converted from their worship but in the same season manage to get them back and re-convert them. Do they still count for having been her followers for the Entire year as required by the rules to gain faith at the end of the year. Please see NGH Page 98. Also if your followers drop to less than 100 how much belief do you generate. By my calculations you lose 2 belief every year for every 10 followers you lose.
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Gryphoness
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PostSubject: Re: Stolen Followers   Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:57 pm

My personal thinking on this matter is that because they weren't with this god the entire year, the god doesn't gain belief from them. If you manage to drop below 100 then you have to live with the lowered amount. Which in my case means 10 belief instead of 20.
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tygerr
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PostSubject: Re: Stolen Followers   Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:56 pm

You're correct in the effects of losing followers on the gaining of annual Belief.

I'd think the temporary loss would have to be a GM call--while they were lost to the deity for some amount of time, the GM might decide to be merciful and ignore that if it were only a couple days (i.e., if they were rescued and reconverted very quickly).

Also, if they converted of their own free will, even for a few days, this might be viewed as a sign that their faith was so weak they truly would not generate Belief. But since their minds were tampered with, again we have a mitigating factor which the GM might or might not take into account when deciding whether or not the temporarily-lost followers generate Belief.
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Rhishisikk
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PostSubject: Re: Stolen Followers   Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:31 am

Buffy: But I was only gone for two minutes!
Giles: Apparently, it doesn't matter how long you were gone.
Buffy (sulking): I came back...

If the loss was from Miracle, I'd have to say confronting and defeating the miracle keeps the worshippers. Defeating the Miracle by waiting until tomorrow's inspiration and THEN smacking it down doesn't (gave up, even for a little bit). But people abducted and only performing rituals for the other guy because of beatings? I'm sorry, I don't count that as a shift at all. If anything, their prayers to their deity are that much more fervent.

Historical Witness: The Hebrews kept the faith for how many centuries until Moses came along? Under dhimitude for how many centuries in Jerusalem? Oh, and of course everyone knows that all those Palestinians converted from Islam and merged peaceably with Israel, right?

My point is: There is a difference between PERSUADED away and FORCED away. Although if it's the deity or his Spirit followers doing the forcing, I'll make an exception...
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sdknight
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PostSubject: Re: Stolen Followers   Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:06 am

For example the followers are grabbed and as the deity is trying to track them from the celestial abode they completely disappear as they have been hit with a miracle to insta-convert them to the worship of a new Deity. Now said followers are eventually recovered and then have to be re-converted. Not exactly the same as the Forced Worship of the Hebrew people.


Rhishisikk wrote:
Buffy: But I was only gone for two minutes!
Giles: Apparently, it doesn't matter how long you were gone.
Buffy (sulking): I came back...

If the loss was from Miracle, I'd have to say confronting and defeating the miracle keeps the worshippers. Defeating the Miracle by waiting until tomorrow's inspiration and THEN smacking it down doesn't (gave up, even for a little bit). But people abducted and only performing rituals for the other guy because of beatings? I'm sorry, I don't count that as a shift at all. If anything, their prayers to their deity are that much more fervent.

Historical Witness: The Hebrews kept the faith for how many centuries until Moses came along? Under dhimitude for how many centuries in Jerusalem? Oh, and of course everyone knows that all those Palestinians converted from Islam and merged peaceably with Israel, right?

My point is: There is a difference between PERSUADED away and FORCED away. Although if it's the deity or his Spirit followers doing the forcing, I'll make an exception...
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Varchild_Marquee
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PostSubject: Re: Stolen Followers   Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:18 pm

Exact situation for review:

1. Salamander decoy force assaults 1 household of human god's people.
2. Human god MANIFESTS on known world to confront threat personally, grabbing up hero in town as backup.
3. Conflict ensues at household, meanwhile...

1. Dragon God remains in celestial realm watching events as they transpire.
2. Sees the human's god manifested on known world and sends illusion to his actual force to attack.
3. "Word of God" page 113 of NGoM used to convert unprotected followers in town.
4. New converts walk off without a fight.
5. Human's god completely oblivious to the conversion.

Later...
Human god, once again returned to his celestial abode, tries to locate missing followers using divine sight, can't find because followers already converted.
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Varchild_Marquee
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PostSubject: The other incident...   Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:36 pm

So as not to be told I have omitted anything, the other incident. And remember these assaults stemmed from Salamander trying to make a quota to another Human God in exchange for food:

1. Salamander force takes mangod's human followers while they sleep
2. Mangod uses Divine Sight to find missing force.
3. Mangod uses illusion to send Elite to rescue people.
4. Mangod afflicts salamnders with their own diseases.
5. Mangod incarnates to free captive people while Elites fight salamanders.
meanwhile...

1. Dragon God watching from above in the celestial realm, sees mangod's fatal error and acts on it.
2. Illusion orders attack by major force.
3. Uses "Word of God," page 113 of NGoM, to instantly convert mangod's folowers.
4. Converted followers walk off with salamanders without a fight.

later... you get the idea.
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