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 Divine attributes

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Rhishisikk
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PostSubject: Divine attributes   Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:43 am

In the main rulebook, it says that PCs have d10 for all their primary statistics. In the Celestial Gardens, it claims that deities have NO stats unless they manifest them as a miracle.

I'm cool with either way, but which is the 'official' interpretation?
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JoeSlucher
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:51 am

When gods incarnate on the known world they have d10's for their stats but in the celestial realm I believe they have no stats unless they manifest them as a miracle. At least that's what I remember but I'm just the art director. I'll let Richard know of your post and he'll know for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:48 am

Joe is correct here. D10 stats on the Known World as you spend 1 belief to manifest in a mortal form. In the Celestial Gardens everything is spirit stuff, very metaphysical so there is no need for a body.
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:37 am

From what I've read, every change to the spirit realm is a struggle to maintain as desired, and does nothing to benefit you, though some of those changes may be needed for followers you have dragged there for some purpose. But along the lines I can understand needing a stat to use in the celestial realm (combat, contests of will), the New God's Handbook points out conflicts in the spirit realms are costly and usually unsatisfying for either side. So why, except as a role playing moment, would you have need of any traits (like body, mind, or spirit) in the Celestial Gardens? Does anything in the spirit realm have stats that you, a god, would be in contention with and could not just blast to vapor with as much or less belief than pumping a stat into existence?

I guess what I'm asking is, while having the rules about giving yourself stats in the Celestial Garden are nice, why do we need them?
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:02 pm

Varchild

You are absolutely correct. You do not need the stats. You have stated eloquently what I meant to say earlier.

But the main thing about this game is choice. I want to make sure if you play this game, we are not putting you into a corner with no choice. This is not a rules heavy game. But the rules that exists are there for you to use or throw away at your lesiure. Heck we give you optional rules so you can style the game to your type of play.

Some people like to use stats no matter where they are. Some people do not.

Some people like New York Strip Steak. Some like Sailsbury Steak.

Overall I am happy you picked up a copy and read the game!
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:40 pm

I'm a big proponent of reading the game materials. I know several people who no matter what game it is, they don't bother to read anythign about it, either as players or as GMs, and then they try and run it. Not exactly a fun situation when that happens.

I see the point of some folks likeing the rules and some folks not needing them. I do like that the rules are available. Although I think if I run a game of it before anyone else, I may only charge 1 Belief in the spirit realm, like I would in the known world, to manifest with d10 for all stats no matter where the god is, and pump it from there.
Or is that how it is already? Don't know myself; I haven't gotten to that material yet.

Out of curiosity, if you didn't want to appear in the known world at d10 stats, but rather say... d6 stats for some reason, it would still cost you 1 Belief right? No discount for sacrifice?
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:22 pm

Out of curiosity, if you didn't want to appear in the known world at d10 stats, but rather say... d6 stats for some reason, it would still cost you 1 Belief right? No discount for sacrifice?

Unfortunatly no, there is nothing less than 1 Belief for this action. All miracles cost a min of 1 Belief.

There are some free actions (such as coming down to the Known World in Spirit Form, looking at your followers and seeing what they are up to, listening to prayers), but when you interact down there (such as casting a miracle or manifesting) it will cost you.
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Rhishisikk
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:40 am

I don't particularly need stats in the Celestial Realm. My concern is roleplaying interactions such as:
I'm walking the plains of Strife near the Fortress of Ralmos to pick up the fallen souls of warriors from my recent conflict with some salamanders. Oops. There are some salamander souls there from the same battle, and they don't like me very much. If I understand the rules correctly, unless I spend Belief they pin me down, skin me, and torture me for a year until the new Belief rolls in.

In this situation, may I manifest for 1 point, or is it an Alteration miracle?
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:48 am

Yes you can,

And if you want to just simply "go away" you can. Gods can move instantaenously from their celestial home to their followers in the Known World and the celestial gardens in the blink of an eye. And this costs nothing. So if they are coming you can blink out if you can see them beforehand.

Now if you are distracted, or being assulted by a miracle you might get ambushed. Then sure you might want to mainfest into a more solid spirit.
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:02 am

The main reason I see for having stats in the CG or elsewhere in the spirit realm would be roleplaying. What if I want to challenge another god to a friendly wrestling match, a miracle duel, or a contest of wit and riddles? Need stats to resolve those right?
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:27 pm

forsaken1111 wrote:
The main reason I see for having stats in the CG or elsewhere in the spirit realm would be roleplaying. What if I want to challenge another god to a friendly wrestling match, a miracle duel, or a contest of wit and riddles? Need stats to resolve those right?

Nothing has stats in the celestial realms unless you give it stats. The reason for this is that in the celestial realms belief is what makes gods superior to spirits and other celestial beings. A contest of wills on the celestial realm boils down to how wiling are you to resolve a conflict by spending belief. An old god with lots of belief may be more willing to resort to contests on the celestial plane, but a young god will hopefully have enough sense to seek compromise and diplomacy over conflicts. If it does come to blows, stats have to be boosted from basically a 1 to whatever level of power you can afford desire. At that point it's what you can make of yourself that matters, not what you started out as. A god completely composed of ice is physically equal to a god composed of shadow, until the one spends belief to contest the other.

In all honestly the lack of stats promotes roleplaying more than having stats. Stats simply provide a reference for roll playing... yeah I spelled that the way I meant to. Act out the drama, don't roll it on the table.
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:06 pm

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. So really clashes and contests in the celestial realms come down to raw power and creativity, and roleplaying. I actually love the fact that this game focuses on roleplaying over ruleslawyering.
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:03 am

Actually, I have an addition question in regards to this topic. In the main book, buried in the Character Creation section (under "Manifestation", I believe) it says Gods have d10 stats when physically manifested, as well as d12 in their primary stat (as it pertains to their concept). My question is this: What is their primary stat? Body being the primary stat for a God of Battle is pretty easy to figure out, but what about a God of Drinking? Does the primary stat change, or is it permanently chosen at character creation?
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PostSubject: Re: Divine attributes   Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:41 am

Mr Howard,

The D12 pertains to skills that fall under their domain (not concept) This includes primary and secondary domains.

"A god is considered to be exceptional at every skill and ability (rated as an individual with D10 for purposes of conflict resolution), with the exception of skills that are considered to fall under their domain, which they exhibit at the limit of human capacity (rated as D12 for conflict resolution)." PG 71 DSS001

If you are a god of drinking and you can consume vast quantities of alcohol you can incarnate with D10 stats but for the purpose of a drinking contest you would use a d12 for body in the drinking contest.

If you wished to come up with your own new version of mead you can brainstorm this incarnate at a d12 mind provided there was some type of inspiration.

I hope this answers your question.
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